|
Pavilion
of Tibetan Culture
The Dalai Lama in Auroville
Talks:
On
Humanity | Talks
with the Teachers | Interview
with Auroville Today
The visit
His Holiness the
Dalai-Lama, spiritual and temporal leader of the Tibetan people visited
the International Township of Auroville on 23rd and 24th December 1993.
This was the Dalai Lama's second visit to Auroville. He first came some
twenty years ago, in January 1973, after having met the Mother in the
Sri Aurobindo Ashram in Pondicherry.
In January 1993, His
Holiness the Dalai Lama has consented to be the Patron of the Pavilion
of Tibetan Culture in Auroville.
For five days before
the visit of His Holiness the Dalai Lama, Auroville recorded the
heaviest torrential rains it had witnessed for decades at this time of
the year. Usually the SW monsoon is finished by early December and we
thought that we would enough time to repare the roads.
During the last weeks before the 23rd December, Aurovillle saw more
activities that it had seen for years as we tried to get everything
ready for the visit in particular the Sri Aurobindo Auditorium in Bharat
Nivas and the site of the Pavilion.
The first small miracle
of the visit was that in the afternoon of the 23rd when His Holiness
reached Auroville at around 3 p.m., the rain stopped. He was first taken
to Forecomers, which was the first settlement in Auroville; it used to
be a bare plateau of red laterite and it is now a forest with hundreds
of different species of trees. Knowing the Dalai Lama's interest in
environment, we had thought that he should first meet with the
Aurovilians having worked on the regeneration of the life of the soil of
Auroville.
He then proceeded to Pitanga Hall, the multipurpose cultural centre for
Auroville near Samasti.
To coincide with the Dalai-Lama's visit an exhibit of the photographs of
the renown Indian photographer Raghu Rai, taken from his book
<169>Tibet In Exile<170>, was held for one month in Pitanga
Hall where His Holiness took the opportunity to look at the Yoga and
Dance class rooms.
The Dalai Lama next visited the Matrimandir, the <169>Soul of
Auroville<170>. He could sit with his close entourage and meditate
in the Inner Chamber for a few minutes.
Before retiring to his room, he was taken to the orchid section of the
Matrimandir Nursery where his deep knowledge of flowers and in
particular, orchids impressed everyone present.
On the 24th morning,
after having given an interview to the Auroville' monthly newspaper
Aurovile Today, His Holiness laid the Foundation Stone for the Pavilion
of Tibetan Culture, under a cloudless sky, in Auroville's International
Zone. It was a very intense moment, while he was laying the Foundation
Stone (which had specially been brought from Tibet for the occasion),
Tibetan monks from Ganden Monastery recited Tibetan prayers and later a
group of children of Auroville sign Sanscrit Hymns to the Divine Mother.
Before leaving the site, His Holiness planted a Christmas tree to
commemorate the occasion of his visit.
Before addressing
Auroville in the Sri Aurobindo Auditorium, he paid a short visit to
Auroville's Future, the Architecture and Planning Office of Auroville.
He could see the plans/maps of Auroville, in particular of the
International zone and of the Tibetan Pavilion.
He then addressed a
large gathering of Aurovilians and friends who had come from Pondicherry
on one of His Holiness' favorite theme: the importance of Love,
Compassion for a society.
Later we visited the Information & Reception Centre which is a large
complex made of compressed earth blocks, where our visitor's information
centre, a boutique, a cafetaria and multipurpose exhibition rooms are
located.
His Holiness shown a lot of interest for the use of non-conventional
sources of energies for the complex and in particular for the windmill.
At the time of His Holiness' visit, an exhibition was held in
collaboration with the Italian Embassy in Neew Delhi. The team looking
after the Italian Pavilion in Auroville had organized an Italian week in
which artists from Italy are participating. This is part of the
activities of the International Zone.
The Center for Scientific Research (CSR) is the place where many
Tibetans have been trained in appropriate building technology (ferro-cement,
mud bricks, chulas, etc...). It is also in collaboration with the CSR
that the "Awareness Workshop for a Sustainable Future of
Tibet" was held last July. Many of these training programs are made
in collaboration with Aptt Trust of UK.
At the end of the morning His Holiness went to Transition School where
he met some 35 teachers and some senior students of Auroville. An
extremelly interesting debate followed on the different systems of
education and in particular on non-formal education experiments
attempted in Aurovillle schools. The transcript of the talk avalaible on
this site.
Before leaving for Madras, His Holiness had a lunch in Dana Community
with the team who had organized his visit to Auroville.
It is difficult to sum up with words such an event in the life of
Auroville but it will be surely be remembered by all as the great
moments in Auroville history.
This is due without doudt to the sincerity, the kindness, the
compassion, the simplicity and humour to this man who like to say that
he is just a simple monk.
Claude Arpi
January 1994
Talks:
On Humanity
Address
by His Holiness the Dalai Lama
Sri Aurobindo Auditorium, Bharat Nivas, Auroville
December 24, 1993
After
introductory remarks by Maj. Gen. K.K. Tewari (Retd), His Holiness the
Dalai Lama addressed the gathering in the Auditorium on the theme:
"Humanity".
(speaking
through his Secretary)
I'm extremely happy to be here again in Auroville to meet with all you
people who are working in Auroville and are dedicated to your work and
to achieving the goals of Auroville. I would like to thank you for
asking me to come here and visit Auroville again, and I take this
opportunity to especially thank Claude Arpi.
Now, I
will try now to speak through my broken English.
(laughter and applause from the crowd)
Since my last visit, I have seen much progress and many developments
have taken place and I'm extremely happy about it. You have done many,
many things.
I had the impression from my last visit that in spite of a few trees and
bushes, it was basically a barren land. Now, today, it has become almost
like a forest, a jungle. This happened because of your dedication and
your full involvement. You dedicated all your time and energy to certain
principles and also you worked as a team with, I think, a very good
sense of community. This is extremely important and very good, and
therefore I would like to express my deep, deep appreciation to all of
you , as a person who admired your late Founder.
I'm a
person who does not believe in national boundaries. For me, all human
beings are the same. If you look at the earth from outer space, national
boundaries have no significance. Today, I think because of the increase
in population, and also because of the modern economy and technology,
the world has truly become just like one human family. Therefore we need
some kind of sense of universal responsibility.
I am a person who believes in these principles and so I'm really
impressed by Auroville and would like to express my deep appreciation.
I also noticed that there is a very good harmony, a good relationship
with the local people, and many of the local Indians seem to fully
participate and to enjoy working with Westerners. This is very good. You
have the spirit of community, irrespective of religion, culture, race.
We really need that.
Then, now, what else to say? (Laughter)
When you have some clear idea and certain objectives and these
objectives are sustained by reason, by logic, then naturally there comes
some kind of will or determination to aim for that goal. With that will,
you can work even harder and your enthusiasm becomes stronger. All the
difficulties and obstacles ? and there are difficulties, there are
obstacles ? will be overcome by that! You gain even more courage.
Therefore, ultimately, motivation is very important, it is of supreme
importance.
I believe that today we human beings, in spite of many achievements and
material development through science and technology, are still facing
many problems. In fact, we are even facing some new problems. Generally
speaking many people in the rich nations, in spite of a beautiful
surface and comfort, have often some kind of mental unrest deep down,
underneath. In the developed nations also, some kind of moral crisis is
happening.
At the same time, although East and West used to be two separate blocs,
both of them having nuclear weapons and each of them mainly based on an
ideology or a system, now these blocs have disappeared. It is of course
very good but then, lately, chaotic situations have developed, like in
Bosnia or in some former Soviet Republics: there is some unrest, some
killing and bloodshed, and this of course is very sad.
Still on the subject of humanity, there is the gap between the
Southerners and the Northerners. One part of the world has a high living
standard: in education and health, in everything the standard is quite
high. They have more than they need, a lot of surplus. Then in another
part of the same world, with the same human beings with the same human
flesh, the same mind, living in similar situations, with an innate
desire for a happy life, with every right to be happy people, to have a
happy family.
So on one side you have millions of people enjoying a high standard of
living, and on the other side, millions of people whose basic human
necessities are not met; who face even starvation. Now this situation,
this gap is not only morally wrong, but practically also it is a source
of problems!
So long as that gap remains, humanity will face problems. For example,
today developed nations are facing the problem of the new immigrants, of
job seekers coming from poor countries.
In the long run, if this gap remains, naturally it will give rise to a
very unhealthy situation. Distances today are hardly of much
significance. Everyone depends on everyone else, and therefore we have
to find ways and means to change this situation.
And another problem is the environment ? although, being a Tibetan, I
only became aware of the environmental problem very recently. When we
were in Tibet, we had a small population and the climate was dry, we did
not face mamy problems with the environment. In fact we had hardly any
problem. We could drink water from any river. So, when I first
understood or heard of polluted water, that "this water can be
drunk and this water is polluted and cannot be drunk", in the
beginning I was a little bit surprised and I said "wait". Then
I learned the importance of environment, and it really became very
serious.
War, bloodshed, etc.. are things which strike us immediately. But
pollution, environmental problems are not immediately visible, they are
not so striking. But, invisibly, they spread. And once we realize what
is happening, the problem has already become very serious, and then
maybe it is too late. The environmental problem is now a very important,
a serious matter.
Also
when we think about humanity, when we think about the rights of every
human individual, then we should not forget about the coming
generations. Not only the next generation, but the ones after that, they
are also human beings. These people are our own descendants, our own
children and our children's children, so, as their forefathers, we have
the responsibility to think of their rights, their lives!
When we think in these terms, then it is clear that not one or two
individual nations can solve these problems. The entire humanity has to
work as one team. When we talk about these things, of course they sound
understandable, but when we want to put them into practise, to implement
them, it becomes very difficult.
For that reason, I believe in these small individual institutions or
organizations like Auroville which are actually working in that
direction and taking practical initiatives.
So, you
can see that your work, your dedication, in the long run is extremely
beneficial for humanity. You should think in this line. Then, you will
develop the inner force which moves you forward without a feeling of
fatigue.
One
more thing. It is important for a person to perform compassionate work.
With some work you will immediately get a big salary, a big profit, so
because of that, you may sometimes find it easier to work hard. But with
compassionate work, which is of a more spiritual nature, you really need
the inner force and full dedication, but in the end you will get more
satisfaction.
Another factor which is an essential factor according to my own personal
experience and the first-hand experience of some of my friends, is
calmness of mind. When your mind is calm, then it automatically brings
patience and also your health is also improved. Then you can engage in
harder work.
I believe the basic factor in peace of mind is compassion, or human
affection. If you think about your own experience, then the reason is
quite clear: when your mind, your heart, has more of a compassionate
nature, then automatically it opens what I call a kind of "inner
door". Then through that door you can communicate with your fellow
human beings, without any difficulties, whether you have known them
before or not. Immediately when you see a fellow human being at once you
feel: "Oh! another human being, just like my brother or my
sister." You can communicate easily, you can communicate heart to
heart. That immediately expells fear and doubt.
Take another case: if you feel here (pointing to his heart): hatred,
jealousy, then it automatically closes your inner door. As a result, you
find it difficult to communicate with your fellow human beings because
of your own negative feelings here (again pointing to his heart). You
also get the impression that other people also have some similar
feeling. So, automatically you develop suspicion and doubt, and that
suspicion and doubt brings fear, and then the fear fuels more
frustration. Within your circle, you become more hesitant, and
eventually your health will also suffer.
So peace of mind, human love and compassion, loving kindness to all and
human affection are key factors.
When we
think about peace of mind, when we think about a happy life, we should
not forget about the value of human compassion. It is important to
remember that the major religions also teach us the importance of
compassion, love and forgiveness.
But, essentially, there can be two separate things ? religion and basic
human values or the good qualities that you can call "secular moral
ethics". Without being a religious believer, you can be a
compassionate person. Therefore, if a person feels that in different
religious traditions there is something effective or something useful,
of course it is very good. But even if those people do not feel that
religion is very relevant to their daily lives, it doesn't matter, they
can remain non-believers, but at the same time they shouldn't neglect
the basic human qualities such as human affection.
Obviously,
I believe that the basis of human nature is gentleness. Many people feel
that the basis of human nature is aggressive. Let us think about it, let
us examine it. Yes, certainly anger, hatred, greed and aggression
together with human intelligence are part of human nature.
If you look at human history, the aggressive human nature has played an
important role, it has caused much wrong in human history. But,
certainly, the dominant force in our mind is affection or gentleness.
The dominant human force is human compassion and affection.
Now,
let us reason, think about our lives. Our life begins with our mother,
nourishing us with her milk ? it can be our mother or someone else. If
we look at the child at birth, one sees that he naturally feels through
his body, he has a very close physical feeling towards his mother or
whoever is feeding him. It is a very intimate feeling! Without that
feeling, the child would not suck the breast. It is a law of nature. And
that is the most important period for the child. It is the beginning of
his life. There is no room for anger at that time, only affection.
Now
take education. When we are getting a lesson from a teacher, that person
shows us compassion, love, and a sense of concern. The lesson that comes
from the mouth of that person has real value! You can feel that it has
value! And the lesson goes deep, not only in our brain, but also in our
heart!
Take another case: if a very important lesson comes from a person who
never shows affection or concern towards you as his student then, that
lesson can of course go up here (pointing to his head), but not down
here (pointing to his heart).
Now,
when we get sick, we call for one doctor or another. But, according to
my own experience, when I meet a really qualified doctor ? with
sophisticated machines, but less than a smile, a doctor who acts like a
robot without much human feeling ? then sometimes I have a little doubt
about this doctor! But if the doctor (even if he has a less
sophisticated equipment) is full of smiles and has a lot of human
feeling, then I am much more comfortable (laughing). I start to think:
"Oh! this doctor will do his best!" Here also human affection
is very much involved.
Now, on
to our last day, the day of our death. When a person is dying, even an
ordinary doctor will usually advise people to keep a peaceful atmosphere
around the person, to not disturb him. "Quiet!" The person,
whether he is disturbed or not, will die!! In any case he is dying. You
may think: "It does matter much!" But if in your state of mind
there is more compassion, and the dying person is surrounded by silence
or by close friends, then the dying person will feel happier.
It is the law of nature and the nature of our life.
Regarding
your health: for every part of your body, it is very relevant to have a
peaceful mind, rather than an agitated mind. When your mind remains calm
and more compassionate, your blood circulation is always
normal. When your mind becomes more agitated, then it will eventually
worsen. Everybody is very much healthier with a compassionate mind than
with an angry mind.
That is human nature, basic human nature.
Thinking
along these lines my conclusion is that basic human nature is gentleness
or compassion. It is therefore much more logical if we act according to
our basic nature, i.e. gentleness. Unfortunately we often act in a
contradictory manner. There is potential, if we make efforts to remain
aware, we can change. We can transform ourselves, just like in Auroville
the barren land has been transformed and is full of life. Similarly,
each individual human being, using his intelligence and determination,
can change! According to my own experience, with effort I can change,
and to a certain extent I have changed my mental attitude. And it has
brought me much, much benefit. Therefore, to develop peace of mind,
compassion and human affection are very, very important factors. There
is no point in neglecting these basic and good human qualities.
Each
individual human being has in himself the potential or seed of these
good qualities. The only question is whether we want to make the effort
or not, that is the question. Otherwise, we can change. We can change
our minds through mental training, just like we can train our physical
bodies.
Therefore,
for individuals who really seek peace of mind, the method is there, the
potential is there. They do not necessarily need to go to the market, or
to some sophisticated hospital, and pay a lot of money, and try to get
peace of mind or some kind of compassionate mind. Without paying
anything, you can develop it! Even in the supermarket, you cannot buy
peace of mind. You cannot buy a happy mind, a compassionate mind.
For the compassionate mind, the seed of these good things is in you from
your birth, it is are already there. I feel that it is very important to
realize this and to think about it.
Now
concerning religion: when we talk about religion or religious
traditions, we immediately get a picture of a temple or different
customs or rituals. This is not truly speaking the real sense of
religion: these are not necessarily religious things. Generally
speaking, the real sense of religion has to do with a positive mind. A
positive mind means that which ultimately brings us benefit or
happiness, and the method by which these things are generated: this is
the essence of religion.
The reason is quite clear: the external features of religion can be
utilized in a negative way. They are therefore not essential, and not
necessarily religious either. The essence of religion, like compassion,
cannot be negative! For example, the recitation by mouth (Mantras), is
of course part of religious practice, but while you are reciting some
mantras, you can be thinking of hatred, of profit or how to cheat this
gentleman or that one. You can think about these things while you are
reciting your mantra, but that is not a true religious action.
Then,
meditate on compassion. That is true religion! Because while you
meditate on compassion, you cannot think about hatred. These two
thoughts cannot go together. These two thoughts which oppose each other
cannot go together. So, therefore, meditation on compassion is the
essential religion.
If we can realize the essentials of the major religious traditions, then
that is what is relevant to our modern daily lives. If we look at the
superficial or the ritualistic level, these may not be relevant in our
daily lives. If we think about the deeper level, all the major religious
traditions carry the same message, ? although the presentation about
love and compassion may differ because of different philosophies, but
the general concept of compassion is the same. Once we realize the
importance of this and we appreciate the deeper value of the human mind,
then it automatically brings genuine respect towards all other
religions. So, that also acts as a foundation for the development of
harmony between different religious traditions. This is also very
crucial.
Now, sometimes, religions also become yet one more instrument to divide
humanity. So compassion, a compassionate mind has many, many important
roles.
And according to my own little experience, we can change. We can
transform ourselves. Therefore, those people who feel OK about what I
just said, can try to experiment with it in their daily lives. At least,
spend a few minutes every day, analyze these things and try to develop
compassion, and eventually compassion will become a part of your life.
Then you'll be a truly happy person.
If you find that my talk has not much relevance to your daily life, then
just forget it. (Laughter) There is not much problem.
So, thank you very much. That's all. (Applause)
***
After
His Holiness had spoken, an Aurovilian expressed the sentiment of the
whole community when giving the vote of thanks: "Ever since the
soil of Tibet was placed in the urn of Auroville in 1968, our contacts
have been ongoing. Your laying of the Foundation Stone of the Tibetan
Pavilion is like a confirmation, a Seal of Dharma on that relationship
whose ties will be cemented further still in the years to come.
In 1954, the Mother had a Dream:
"There should be somewhere upon Earth a place that no nation could
claim as its sole property, a place where all human beings of good-will,
sincere in their aspiration could live freely as citizens of the world,
obeying one single authority, that of the Supreme Truth."
Your Holiness, you have the Dream of a future Tibet that will be a Zone
of Peace and a spiritual sanctuary for mankind.
May both those Dreams prevail.
His
Holiness the Dalai Lama:
Thank you very much.
I would like to express my deep appreciation for these gifts. I
specially very much appreciate that you mentioned about Tibet and
particularly Claude my old friend who always shown deep concern about
Tibet.
We, Tibetans are in this country [India] for more than 34 years. we are
refugees. But not refugees from a natural disaster, but because of the
political situation.
Tibet, even according to the Chinese has a civilization as old as the
Chinese civilization and it had its unique environment. Later due to the
introduction of Buddhism in Tibet, Tibet developed its own unique
cultural heritage, its own culture with its own written language and it
produced its own history.
So, Tibet is a separate country from China, there is no doubt about it!
Since the Chinese invasion, a lots of destruction and sufferings have
happened, even the late Panchen Lama who often spoke on behalf of the
Chinese ? obviously his inner person is very strongly Tibetan, but
because of the circumstances, he was compelled to speak only according
to the Chinese policy ? even him, just two days before his sudden death,
he expressed that "since the Chinese have occupied Tibet"
(Laughing), no, no he did not used the word "occupation" of
course, he said "since the Chinese came to Tibet, there are many
developments, but these developments can not match with the
destruction."
I truly believe if the invaders had brought something good ? they
themselves claimed to be the liberators ? if the liberators had brought
good things, the history is the history, the past is the past, things
will be different today. But in reality, the liberators brought on us
misery and fear, therefore after more than 40 years of Chinese invasion,
the gap between the Chinese and the Tibetan is still wide, it is even
widen.
Now when we were in Tibet until early 1959, the crisis was not a racial
crisis, the crisis was only due to the invasion, but since then, due to
the Chinese behaviour the crisis has worsened. It now involves many
different aspects and factors: on aspect is the environment, another one
is the racial discrimination, there is also a cultural genocide and
human rights violation and all this besides the invasion.
Therefore the Tibetan issue is something important.
To take the example of the environment issue, the major rivers which
flow in the Asian continent have their source in Tibet: once Tibet is
polluted or eroded or nuclear waste are damped there, if something
happen, it will affect major area in Asia. [that is why it is an
important issue].
For alll these reasons, I appreciate your concern, your understanding
and your sympathy.
I really appreciate.
Today we are passing a difficult period, so we really need your help.
Thank you very much!
(Applause)
Talks with the Teachers
His Holiness the Dalai
Lama
meets
the Auroville teachers
Transition School, 24 December 1993.
His Holiness: Do
you still have an education system without examinations, and if so, how
do you evaluate the children?
Deepti: Here in
Auroville you have to build your consciousness and education is meant to
help you to find this consciousness. The only principle is that a child
should up grow in contact with his soul. That's the difficulty: each
human being has his own way, each child has to find his own way.
His Holiness:
Yes, I understand. You have different nationalities, different cultures,
different religions, ideologies of course, I understand all that. But
from the educational point of view, do you see any advantages to this
system?
With an examination system, every year, every time you examine the
students, it creates a sense of competition, and without that sense of
competition students may, sometimes, become less concerned about
studying. Of course there is a positive and a negative aspect to the
competition. So, what advantage does a system without exams have?
(Laughter)
Miriam: I grew
up in a system without examinations and because there is no examination
and there is no external push, you do have to find something to push you
forward, you have to find your own individual push. And the students
have to find that from a very early age.
His Holiness: It
is when things become difficult, when you face the challenge, then the
real examination takes place.
Miriam: Yes,
yes, and that is happening to the Auroville children all the time.
Deepti: Your
Holiness, Miriam grew up in Auroville. She is a product of our
educational system and now she is teaching. Tashi also grew up in this
system.
Jean: Having no
syllabus, the teacher needs the plasticity to adapt to every batch of
children who come to his class. All the children are different and we
have to answer each one of them, on demand. When we are in front of a
problem, it has to be solved. For me, the problem is not to have
examinations or not.
His Holiness:
What is the ratio of children to teachers here?
Deepti: It is
much bigger, you have more teachers here than you would in a normal
school. We have a happy situation.
His Holiness:
Then how many students does a teacher have at one time?
Deepti: The
largest class size could be twenty and the smallest could be on a
one-to-one basis. It depends on the teacher and the subject.
His Holiness:
After twenty years of experience, what difference do you find between
children who have been to other schools and your students? For example,
what is the difference in the educational standard of children who have
finished from prestigious schools and those who finished from your
school?
Jean: I think
one of the main advantages of Auroville is the human contact, the focus
on human development. And that does not have to be taught, it is in you.
You have to master it and discover it throughout your life.
In Auroville you can learn all your life. Intellectually, you may have
less knowledge here than in a normal school. But here you have a human
knowledge, and the theoretical or intellectual knowledge you can learn
anytime time during your life.
Ulla: One main
difference is that youth who come from traditional schools have a clear
concept about themselves or what has happened or what will happen. So
this brings in, of course, an element of rigidity, of knowing exactly
what to do. The advantage for me in Auroville is the unknown factor. We
don't even know what the advantage will be, we cannot frame it, we
cannot articulate it. So it's a risk, we are going from one experiment
to the other, although we don't know where we are going. It is a more
open flexible situation, where later on the grown-up will try to find
out what he learned as a youth. So he is coming in contact with many
aspects within himself. And this is necessary.
His Holiness:
Now, if you take a different subject, e.g. history or mathematics, and
suppose that a child is lagging behind in one subject. What do you do?
Do you throw him out or leave him to work it out himself?
Deepti: You use
the maximum pressure you have at your disposal which means you work with
friendly persuasion. There are no exams and there are no external
pressures. It is a sort of a persuasion from your side and a movement of
wanting to learn from the child. That has to be awakened. Because the
basic principle of Auroville is that what has to emerge has to emerge
from within. We do not compromise on that principle. We want to create a
human being that finds what has to emerge from within. So we have that
chaos, while the being hasn't yet found the inner spirit and the freedom
of the inner spirit that can control the outer; we are in a process, the
children as much as the teachers.
His Holiness: In
some ways this is quite profound.
(Laughter).
Did you make some kind of investigation or have you undertaken some
studies and worked out any percentages to see how people who have been
taken care of and who have grown up in Auroville's educational system,
have fared in life? for example, in their marriages, in their family
relationships, whether they've fared better than others?
Deepti: But your
Holiness, that would depend on the measure that you use. Our measures
are not the measures of normal society. We want the child to have a
universal temperament so that he can see himself as a citizen of the
world. Now how do you measure a human being? Because we are talking
about inner qualities.
Our children tend to be survivors. They can manage in most life
situations, perhaps not by the measures of worldly success, but as human
beings they're different. Because to grow up in Auroville is to grow up
among many cultures many attitudes and ideas which sometimes conflict
with each other. You ARE different, you are a citizen of the world, you
grow up with a sense of the world. And we think that is a success, even
if the academic side is not measurable with what a normal education
would be.
Secretary to His
Holiness: His Holiness is also trying to find out the result on
human relationships.
His Holiness:
When a person is brought up in this education system, as you mentioned
earlier, with a stronger accent on spiritual aspects and more human
feelings, is he a happier person?
Now what is the main reason why we need more human feeling?
It is that this being should be a happier person. That is our aim, isn't
it? He should also give less trouble to the society. Take a couple who
has not gone through your education system, they love each other and
marry. In that marriage, do you have less divorce? Now if this couple
has children, do the children become healthier due to their parent's way
of life?
If this study gives clear results, then of course, it is an achievement
and it does not matter if others criticize or what they say about it.
Then, you mention about "culture", there is no one
"culture", "different cultures"!
When we think in terms of "one humanity", when we think of
this culture or that culture, then, I think, this culture is man-made.
People live in different communities, and according to different
environments and other circumstances, it creates a "culture".
In this way, each place has a different culture.
Now suppose that "a citizen of the world" has all the
"cultures", it is impossible!
"Culture" is quite a peculiar thing!
Forget about "culture"!
(gesture of rejecting)
Return to the Stone Age, was human nature was not yet sophisticated:
man-made culture was not yet developed!
So at that time there is no demarcation of culture. (Gesture like a
fence, a barrier).
Simply human beings require human feelings in order to be happy, in
order to have a successful life.
What we need to find, is the way to feed our children, they may come
from the East, the West, the South or the North, from a cultured or an
uncultured nation, from an educated or an uneducated background, they
are all the same, with the same genuine human affection, the same smile,
the same spirit: when someone falls down, whether you have been
introduced to him or not, whether you know him or not, you should go
there and help him, that it is an act of basic human nature.
Perhaps in certain cases, if a person fell down a Hindu, a Muslim or a
Buddhist, will feel that person has a different robe, he feels
different, ("Oh, this is not my culture, it does not belongs to
us"). There I think it is man-made culture which creates the clear
divisions. But let it be.
(Gesture of dismissal).
Human beings are the same, but if we put more emphasis on artificial
cultural heritage, if we forget that others may be suffering, then it
becomes a problem. What should we do to solve the problem?
All "man-made culture" must be based on human feelings.
Sometimes we emphasize artificial culture and we make these artificial
cultures a top priority and we forget about human feeling, but on what
basis? I don't know?
We have to feel both: basic human culture, human value, but artificial
culture is also necessary sometimes. (Laughter)
It is almost impossible to make only one culture.
Jaci: Your
Holiness, Mother and Sri Aurobindo spoke of the development of the
psychic being, the soul as the real factor that could harmonize all the
different contrasts of culture, personality, etc.
His Holiness:
Right, right, right, absolutely right.
Jaci: The only
possibility of harmonizing is to go from inside to outside, never the
contrary. So, this could be the answer.
His Holiness:
Yes, that's true.
Jill: I think
that the more complicated a society becomes, the more structure is
imposed on it from the outside, the more the people in that society
forget the basis of their coming together. People come together because
they've agreed that working and living together is more important than
staying apart; that through coming together there's a strength, through
help, through love, and what we do is, we use that as the basis of
coming together. But then we build all these artificial things, it looks
like we're going higher, we're progressing, but in fact at the same time
we might also be losing the thing that we started with.
His Holiness:
Yes, that's true.
Jill: What we
would like to do here is to not forget why we came together. I think
it's really important for people in Auroville to not forget the reason
that brought us here in the first place.
His Holiness:
That's absolutely true. (Pause) How many children have grown up in
Auroville?
Deepti: I think
perhaps a hundred. A lot of people have not gone to the end of their
studies, they've spent a little bit of time in Auroville and have left.
Actually counting all the schools in Auroville which are run for the
village as well as the other schools, it would be about 600/700
children. The Auroville children themselves are around 175. But now we
have more young people growing up in Auroville. Earlier there were only
a few, like Miriam and Tashi, but there were fewer children then.
Jean: We should
consider also that our classes only go up to a certain level. But we
observe that for levels beyond that children have to go outside to other
schools or universities. From what we have seen, generally, they perform
well and they fill in the missing links ? intellectually missing links!
? quite fast. And on the human level, they adapt very well, that's
important.
His Holiness: Do
you have any plans to go beyond the present level so that students do
not have to go out to ordinary schools and later to colleges? Do you
have any plan to go up to university level with the same system?
Deepti: Luc grew
up in Auroville and he has a dream to open a center for higher learning.
Luc: It started
a few years ago when I was doing my correspondence course. I think that
is the equivalent of XIIth standard. As I was doing it all alone for 16
months I thought it would be nicer to do it together with other students
so that we would help each other in studying and so forth. And then the
idea came to me, together with the teacher with whom I was working, to
create a place where students could come and study together after they
leave "Last School". I was always studying in Auroville and
never wanted to leave just to study, so I wanted to create more
opportunities for those who want to stay in Auroville. And it's
happening right now. The building is coming up, and we're thinking about
how to set up a pattern for that type of education.
His Holiness:
With the kind of education you are providing at the moment, what is the
highest level that the students can reach? If children have to go into
ordinary schools, what class would does one go into, or does it differ
from child to child?
Deepti: It
really differs from child to child, but one could go into the Xth or the
XIIth standard depending on one's capacity. Luc, for instance, has
finished the 12th. It is possible. It depends on the child himself, on
how much he has worked, etc. Because he is free, the child has to make
the effort and find the energy and the commitment within himself.
His Holiness: If
they need, do they have a certificate so that they can go up to the
highest level instead of going to university elsewhere?
Deepti: We
recognize that
Jean: [To go to
a higher level] We also need people who are able to teach. Up till now,
we did it through correspondence courses, with the help of some
teachers.
In fact, we are not professional teachers. We are good-willed people who
are concerned about education and we give our time and the knowledge we
have acquired, but we have no more than that. We research, we don't
know, we are experimenting.
Ulla: We have to
admit that there is often a sense of disappointment or frustration among
the teachers with the results we see in front of us. We have read the
books of Mother and Sri Aurobindo on their concept of education so we
have a goal somewhere, we know where we would like to go.
The difficulty is how to bridge that gap. We are here (indicating here)
right now, and we would like to be there, how to get there? It leaves us
teachers often with a sense of frustration and the problem of how to
transfer the things we want to the children? How to carry it over? My
secret guess is that it is by living it yourself, by experiencing and
then perhaps the children will notice it. It is one problem.
And also, because we have this goal for the future, our perception is
often geared towards the future. But eventually, we might have to learn
to make the best of our present potential. To look around us to see
where we are, and how best we can use the situation. Because we're often
looking there [the future], and not here [the present].
Claude: Once Dr.
Tenzin Choedrak came to visit in Auroville and he took the pulse of more
than 150 Aurovilians. He said the same thing as Ulla: Aurovilians are
suffering from the same disorder, "too much wind in the
brain". It was due, according to Dr. Choedrak, to the tension
caused by the very high ideals aimed at by Aurovilians and the actual
physical reality. (laughter) Most of the Aurovilians had the same
problem.
His Holiness:
It's sometimes good to have good ideas and vision. But of course it can
be unrealistic. At the same time visions or ideas must progress with the
day-to-day situation. It is difficult to judge, right from the
beginning, "this much we can achieve, this much we cannot
achieve", it is very difficult to judge. I don't know today how
much can be achieved without examinations.
One of the basic aims is, as you mentioned, every effort should be made
to cultivate in the child's mind a feeling of basic human values. It is
essential that, under any circumstance, you keep up the effort.
But the ordinary system, as a whole, is not necessarily bad. Now in the
present world crisis, we are certainly not lacking education, but we are
facing a lot of problems because basic human feeling is lacking,
education lacks a spiritual side, that is true.
So we have to fill up that lack.
But that lack does not necessarily come from the present educational
system. I believe that in the present educational system, the teachers
of each subject must first cultivate genuine human feeling in
themselves, in each class they conduct; they must demonstrate and
introduce, day by day, in the minds of children, what is the basic human
value.
The teacher-student relation must be like a family relation, just like a
family relation. So the student will eventually develop a complete trust
in the teacher. He will think: "He is here not only to teach me,
but he is really helping me to develop myself step by step". For
that the teacher's attitude must be developed.
Then, on the other end, the family, each family must create that
atmosphere. Then, the system, I don't know, I don't really know about
systems . . .
If you have some complete plan up to university level, today that is not
there, so it is still in the experimental stage and so it is very
difficult, very difficult, I don't know!
Anyway the kind of human society which will come must develop on this
basis, that's clear, because of your dissatisfaction with the present
system. You carry on your work as an experiment, so it is wonderful,
really wonderful. So, logically, as an experiment, you find a lot of
problems (laughter). That's natural.
There are also a lot of problems because there are no other models to
learn from.
Please, you should not discourage yourself. Carry on with your
enthusiasm and your spirit.
Sometimes high ideals can also be impractical. So knowing that, you
should make every effort, and if in spite of your efforts, you really
feel that it is a problem, then you have to admit that the ideal was too
high! No one can reach there.
Still you must make every effort. There are two kinds of effort: an
effort in action, and a mental intellectual effort. Make every effort in
thinking, planning, thinking, planning (gesture high, low, high, low) to
the highest goal, and you should know there are many stages. Make clear
in your mind what is the blueprint in order to reach there and make all
the efforts, even physical efforts.
You do all these efforts and then, after all the efforts are over, if
there is still some difficulty, you can say, "Well, that's
impossible to achieve! (Laughter) We have to change our plans" or
"We have to find other ways and means".
Therefore, we realize that just to insist on highest ideal now, is not
practical. (Laughter) You have to take some different methods, different
ways step by step and realize the failure of your goal. (Laughter)
So there is no reason to be discouraged when the motivation is sincere.
You are dedicated and are making every effort with sincere motivation
and a clear mind. But the ideal itself is not so easy to achieve. Yes,
the reality itself is finally the big obstacle. And now, what to do?
(laughter)
Claude: Could
you tell us about your education? About your relationship with your
teachers who were some of the highest lamas/teachers of Tibet?
His Holiness:
(laughter) I can generally say that in the Tibetan system, in modern
subjects, the course we was backward.
But in Buddhist studies, which include subjects like Sanskrit, medicine,
etc generally our system is quite good. On the side of the teachers
there is a sense of genuine concern, and generally from the students
side, there is a sense of respect which, I think, creates some positive
things.
In modern education this aspect is lacking.
Take, for example, our monastic institutions in India, even today, after
40 years in exile, still these genuine teachers don't get any salary for
the amount of teaching they give. Not a single rupee.
The students eventually of course get some benefits [from these
teachings]! (Laughter)
But for the teachers: no fixed salary, nothing. Their whole life is
completely devoted to teaching.
Then about competition, as I mentioned earlier, there can be positive
competition and negative competition. The sense of competition in which
someone is gunning for another, that of course is negative competition.
But the sense of competition, when a student thinks "he did this,
it is good, I must catch up", that sense of competition is a
positive action.
About human nature: the students need a challenge. Although students may
not like exams, they have to start studying and it gives results. In my
case, for example, till the time my final examination was fixed, I never
paid serious attention to my studies. (Laughter)
My final exams were fixed in 1957 for 1959; then I really put in a lot
of effort.
Martanda: Were
they written or oral?
His Holiness:
Oral examinations. In Buddhist study.
Martanda: How
was it?
His Holiness:
Mine? .. . not too bad. (Laughter) My name, of course, helped me a great
deal.
Jill: Were your
teachers afraid to fail you?
His Holiness: I
think so, I really think so. But what made me proud and encouraged me
was that after my examination some of the best scholars told me (His
Holiness interrupting the translator to clarify: "they did not
say to me directly, but to some other people), they said "Did he
really study? So if His Holiness had really studied as much as
other students, then he would have done wonderfully". (Laugher)
But, you see, I had a good excuse, I didn't have a lot of time. I had
some other responsibilities. (Laughter)
Thirty four years ago, we became refugees in India. Pandit Nehru was
there at that time and he fully supported us. We told the Indian
government that we wanted separate schools. The main reason was that we
wanted not only to keep our Tibetan identity, but also the spirit of
Tibetan Buddhist culture. We knew very well we were lacking normal
education, that we should fill up that lack, and at the same time we did
not want to lose our traditional values.
Therefore, we are now in separate schools, but following the Indian
government curriculum. The medium of instruction, following Pandit
Nehru's advice, is English, but it always goes together with the Tibetan
language. So more than 30 years after we started this school system, (I
think after 32 years), the results still are not very clear; although,
broadly speaking, they are good.
Our basic aim was to combine a modern educational system with a complete
form of our own cultural system in Tibetan, but we've not been able to
achieve what we expected. It is not easy. The situation is always found
to be difficult. You must depend on other people.
Akash: But what
do you learn, traditionally, in Tibet?
His Holiness: Of
course, mainly the Buddhist philosophy in my case.
Generally speaking, in order to produce a good scholar, you need at
least 20 to 30 years of study. There are many texts to learn by heart,
and then debated: each word should be understood precisely.
Deepti: Your
Holiness, we wanted to present to you some books that were written and
produced in Auroville, and Tashi will give them to you, and also a book
that we published on "Tibet". And "Mother on
Education" containing some texts of Mother on education.
(Books are presented by
Tashi Dolma, an Aurovilian)
Deepti: I want
to express, on behalf of all the teachers, and though all of Auroville
has already said it, but we teachers, feel it even more deeply, that
Tibet must be free and soon.
(Pause)
His Holiness:
Thank you. Yes. I feel very strongly, if Tibet survives, then Tibet can
play two important roles. First Tibet lays between China and India, the
two most populous nations, so if Tibet is free and at least, free from
weapons, that is the best guarantee, the best security for India and
China. The two most powerful nations can have a genuine friendship.
So this is one reason. And of course, from Tibet the Ganges, the
Brahmaputra, the Yellow River and some other rivers reach China,
Cambodia, Laos, Bangladesh, Pakistan and India. These waters should
really remain pure.
That's one of the reasons why Tibet should be free.
If the ecology of Tibet is really spoiled, then the monsoon in the above
countries will be affected. It will not remain normal. If the current
situation is not changed inside Tibet, it can be a very severe threat
for the coming monsoons in the Himalayas.
Another role that a free Tibet can play with the Tibetan culture: the
Buddhist culture is a peaceful culture and can contribute something to
the whole Himalayan region, from Arunachal Pradesh to Bhutan and Ladakh,
then to Inner and Outer Mongolia and also to the three republics of the
Russian Federation, the Buriat Republic, who are traditionally Buddhist,
(they practise the same tradition of Buddhism as Tibetan Buddhism).
Even in China, Buddhism is certainly not alien to the Chinese mind. So
today as a result of the so-called Marxist tradition, the mind and the
morale of young Chinese are very low and they are going through a moral
crisis. So here also Tibet can make a contribution, in all these areas.
Therefore, if Tibet survives under this threat, Tibet can be a useful
nation, a useful human community for the betterment of humanity. Thank
you! Thank you!
Interview with Auroville
Today
Auroville Today
interviews
His Holiness the Dalai Lama
at Kottakarai Guest House on 24.12.93.
Auroville
Today: In 1973 you met The
Mother in Pondicherry. What are your recollections of that meeting?
His Holiness:
Yes, I remember that meeting quite clearly. She was sitting in her chair
- it seemed it was difficult for her to speak - but the atmosphere
around her was not only nice, but meaningful. There were two or three
persons with me and I asked about the future. I can't remember her exact
words but the meaning was that the future was hopeful and positive.
Auroville
Today: For Tibet or the whole
world?
His Holiness:
For the whole world, for humanity.
Auroville
Today: Yesterday you visited
the chamber of Matrimandir. What were your impressions?
His Holiness:
It's difficult to reach (Laughter).
The main hall which you have completed is very nice and inside it's very
calm, very peaceful. I spent a few minutes in meditation.
Auroville
Today: Have you noticed any
changes in Auroville since you were last here?
His Holiness:
One thing that has surprised me very much was that when I first came the
land was barren. I remember the sun was out that day and I was wondering
where the best place was to find some shade. Today you needn't worry
about that!
(Laughter)
It's full of trees, it's almost like a jungle! Now you're probably
worried about snakes, and yesterday I even asked if there were any
elephants here!(Laughter) Today in many parts of the world
we're very concerned about deforestation. This type of project of
restoration is really marvellous. If the people involved in this work
here could use whatever experience they have gained, and find the
opportunity to extend their work to a high altitude place like Ladakh,
if it works there, we could adopt it in a future Tibet.
Also, I have found here a very good sense of community; you are a
determined people, you have an objective, will and determination. I've
also found you have an incredible relation with the local people and
they participate fully. I feel this type of teamwork should spread to
other places.
Auroville
Today: Do you see that we can
help you in a future Tibet?
His Holiness:
Certainly. Your spirit of dedication, your vision and sense of community
and your clear acceptance and realization of the value of spiritual
things are very important. You see, there are many projects that are
very good for material development but are often lacking in spiritual
value or realization. In other cases, there is an emphasis on spirtual
things but with a neglect of practical progress. Here I found a
combination of the two. Certainly we can learn many things from you and
the members of the community here can help us in many fields.
Auroville
Today: Do you feel that there
is a new consciousness, a new force at work in the world?
His Holiness:
That's a difficult question. On the mysterious level sometimes I feel
there may be some energies or forces, but it is difficult to be definite
about it. One thing I believe is that if our mind remains calm when we
are facing serious problems and difficulties, we have the ability to
find different alternatives. We have such a wonderful human intelligence
and imaginative power. So, therefore, when things become really
desperate, it helps to open our mind. And today I think we are passing
through exactly that kind of period of difficulty.
Auroville
Today: Is humanity at a
crossroads?
His Holiness:
I think so, I think so.
Auroville
Today: What is the path that we
should take?
His Holiness:
My basic belief lies in a combination of material and spiritual
development. It is not necessary to be religeous-minded, for even
without religion there are many secular moral ethics and, I think, a
secular spirituality. That means the basic human values such as
compassion, love and a willingness to forgive. These I usually call the
human spiritual qualities. I believe we learn these basic qualities from
our parents, particularly from our mother, or anyone who shows love and
compassion to you. We learn these deeper human values from that period,
from birth. Religion comes later. Of course religion has a great
potential to help humanity and these basic human qualities can be
strengthened by religious belief, but if we go deeper, even without
religion there can be genuine spirituality.
Auroville
Today: Will traditional
religions still have a role to play in the future?
His Holiness:
Sometimes I've described religion as a luxury item. Now for the survival
of the individual or the survival of humanity or the world, religion has
an important role to play. But we can also survive without religion,
provided that the basic human qualities are there. Without these basic
human qualities we cannot survive. Our whole future must be dependent on
what I call these secular moral ethics. These are the foundations of
human existence. In order to make clear these basic values and their
importance I described religion as a luxury item. Many people consider
that religion is not very relevant to their day-to-day life. Their
attitude to religion is indifferent. Simultaneously these people don't
care about human values such as love, compassion and forgiveness, and
they confuse these values with religion. This is absolutely wrong. You
can be a believer or an unbeliever, that is up to the individual, that's
each person's right, but there is no choice between being a
compassionate or non-compassionate person, as I believe that
compassionate moderation is the basis of our happiness, our mental
stability. And for our daily life as well as the world's future, mental
stability and calmness of mind is a crucial factor for a good life, a
positive life. World peace - peace with our fellow human beings, peace
with animals, and peace with the environment - is much dependent on that
kind of mental state.
Auroville
Today: How would you define the
essence of Tibetan culture?
His Holiness:
Tibetan culture has developed due to many factors - environmental,
climatic and others - but Buddhism is the major factor in the
development of Tibet's unique culture, which I call a Buddhist culture.
Even non-Buddhist Tibetans have adopted the mental attitudes and way of
life of Buddhist culture. That culture is based on the practice of
compassion and tolerance.
Auroville
Today : Is that culture under
threat?
His Holiness:
Yes, of course. Quite strangely, outside Tibet, although we are not in
our own country and are in a different environment, I think we've kept
our Tibetan spiritual identity. Inside Tibet, because of the overall
situation in Tibet which is very tense - but where of course the
Buddhist faith as well as the feeling for freedom is very strong - the
Tibetan people's behaviour sometimes seems less tolerant, they
immediately lose their temper and their emotional control over small
incidents. This I feel is a clear indication of how much damage is
happening inside of Tibet.
Auroville
Today: Can you retransplant
that essential Tibetan culture back into Tibet?
His Holiness:
Yes, of course, of that there is no doubt. Of course, unless the
situation changes and becomes positive it is difficult to think of
returning. At the moment in the bigger towns such as Lhasa the majority
of the population is Chinese. So one major factor is the Chinese
population influx. Because of the majority Chinese population the
Tibetan minority is compelled to speak Chinese and act like Chinese.
This is the major negative factor. When in the future things change, we
can of course retransplant. I keep saying that one of the main tasks for
Tibetans outside is to keep the Tibetan deeper spiritual values, no
matter what the difficulties. So that when things change and we return
with freedom, then it is our responsibility to restart.
Auroville
Today: Your Holiness, your main
reason for coming today is to lay the foundation stone of the Tibetan
pavilion. What for you is the significance of a pavilion of Tibetan
culture in Auroville?
His Holiness:
I think we have some potential to make a little contribution for the
betterment of human beings. We have a legitimate right to participate
with you! (Laughter)
Auroville
Today: Do you see this Pavilion
as having a significance stretching beyond the boundaries of Auroville?
His Holiness:
A symbolic significance, yes. I was very moved, very happy, when I was
told that some earth from Tibet was brought here.
Auroville
Today : It was an eight kilo
brick! (Laughter)
His Holiness:
Sometimes this works on a mysterious level.
For the human mind, when you know that there's something from Tibet
here, you feel a special relation.
I feel that Tibetan culture with its unique heritage - born of the
effort of many human beings of good spirit, of its contacts with
Chinese, Indian, Nepalese and Persian culture, and due to its natural
environment - has developed some kind of energy which is useful, and
very helpful, towards cultivating peace of mind and a joyful life. I
feel that there is a potential for Tibet to help humanity, and
particularly our Eastern neighbour, where millions of young Chinese have
lost their spiritual values.
In this way I feel very strongly that Tibetan culture will have a future
role to play in humanity. So therefore, wherever there are spiritual
centres like Auroville, if Tibet can participate it can be a way or a
channel to communicate Tibetan culture to other people.
I have dedicated the rest of my life to demilitarization on a global
level. As a first step, Tibet should be a zone of peace and completely
demilitarized, so that in the future we can help not only China and
India but also the world community. This is my vision and hope for the
future.
|